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Michael Savage directs his bile toward war-supporting "bush bots" and the rest of his conservative radio talk show host colleagues, as a winger Star-Ledger columnist notes approvingly. Should provide interesting fireworks.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:37 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  About time (none)
     Hopefully we'll see more and more following him.
    •  The Enemy of my Enemy... (4.00)
      ...is not necessarily my friend. Make no mistake, Michael Savage makes Pat Buchanan look like a moderate. I'm glad he's taken a stance against the war, but I'm pretty sure that it's for all the wrong reasons.
      •  But if it gets our boys and girls home???? (none)

        When you are going thru hell, keep going! Winston Churchill

        by flo58 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:02:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Savage isn't the only one (none)
          Sometime after midnight I heard Rusty Humphries come out against the war, his reason is that Iraqis have announced their constitution will follow Islamic traditions. Humphries is one of the Clear Channel creeps. Could be a trend?

          (none / 0), (none / 0), it's off to Kos we go, with a...

          by doorguy on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:25:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Rusty Humphries (none)
            Ahhh, Rusty Humphries....

            a face for radio, and a voice for print!

            I despise that bastard.

            If you disagree with the infallible Bush, you are obviously renting the terrorists a room in your house and letting them borrow your car.

            by judyneric on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:27:14 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Let me get this straight... (none)
            the war was fine as long as the unwashed Iraqi masses photocopied the U.S. Constitution and waved American banners. God forbid that leaders of a :ahem: "democracy" might consider to follow the platform that got them elected, thus following the will of their people. We all know how good the Repugs are at doing that.

            There goes Pax Americana....

            The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

            by Ralfast on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:46:11 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Well, see the problem is... (4.00)
              ...women, minorities, the middle class, and people that want/or have a college degree where, uh, better off under Hussein.  Hussein was essentially a Mafia don - he ruled by the consent of his cappos, the heads of the various tribes.  If you crossed the guy you were dead, if you played ball life went on as normal.  Baathism was actually retaliation against what Savage might call "Islamofascism," thus women, for instance, had civil rights in Iraq.  If you judge pre-invasion Iraq in the context of the rest of the middle east the average person had more "rights," per se than in that other nation ruled by our good friends the Saudis.  The invasion that toppled the Baathists have also toppled their movement - in ten years time Iraq will be nothing more than a slighty Americanized Iran.  Every American should be pissed about it.  When you remove a dictator from power, install "democracy," and take away people's rights you have to start asking questions about who the enemy really is.  

              No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. - Edward R. Murrow

              by CrazyHorse on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 06:15:52 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  That the problem with democracy.... (none)
                Democracy is not an American concept. Democracy is a goverment elected by th people and responsive to the same. Do I like the idea of women treated as chattel? Of course not. The real question revolves around soverignty, this moves shows that the Iraqis want to go their way (whether we like the direction their taking or not). It tells me that the Shia foresee a future 'without' an American presence or control. Only when Washington lets go of the purse strings and vacates all troops from Iraqi soil will the Iraqis have true soverignty. What happens after that is up to the Iraqis....

                The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

                by Ralfast on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 06:31:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  It doesn't give me comfort... (4.00)
                  ...to see it that way.  The great failure of our own democracy is that in time of fear, panic, or - yes - apathy the most base element of society can come to the fore.  Jefferson argued that for a democracy to be a success it must have an educated, enlightened populace, otherwise it would descend into nothing more than a "tyranny of the majority."  That's what our nation has become...a tyranny in which the 51% have garnered absolute dominion over the remaining 49%.  That's the kind of democracy we have just exported to Iraq.

                  In 1939, after Hitler invaded Poland, the United States drafted a white paper on the invasion and the subsequent atrocities that took place.  A key phrase from that has stuck with me ever since I first read it: "the rights of the majority are only secure so long as they preserve the rights of the minority."  "Winner take all" democracy is a poor consolation prize.  Mob rule is what the Republicans want - it's worked for them up this point.  That's how they picture our democracy; the winner has absolute sway over the loser.  That's the brand of democracy we've exported to Iraq - the majority is being allowed to bulldoze the rights of the minority under the standard of "democracy."  Read the Magna Carta, the Federalist Papers, or the United Nations Charter; that's not what enlightend democratic thinkers had in mind.  

                  No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. - Edward R. Murrow

                  by CrazyHorse on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:09:00 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  That's why we should focus (none)
                    more on education. All Americans shall be educated into critical thinking from an early age, that's what I think. No more NCLB. No more teaching-the-test and rote learning. No more "homeschooling".

                    Hillary. Wrong on the issues. Wrong elitist image. Wrong for Democrats. Brian Schweitzer 2008

                    by Joe B on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:20:24 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  They have no tradition of liberal thought (none)
                  but they will get there eventually.

                  Liberalism is the most rational way of organizing a people in all places universally at all times. Period. I will have no more of this fancy pant cultural relativism. The illiberal regimes have proven their "worth" (= none) again and again and again throughout history.

                  By liberalism I mean:

                  • separation of state and church (more or less strict)
                  • tolerance
                  • individual rights
                  • political rights
                  • division of power
                  • market economy
                  • equal opportunities (i.e. welfare)

                  Hillary. Wrong on the issues. Wrong elitist image. Wrong for Democrats. Brian Schweitzer 2008

                  by Joe B on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:18:22 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Liberalism.... (none)
                    first of all, we must be careful in imposing Western [read Anglo-American] philosophy on Iraqis, although they themselves have embraced western concepts through out the 20th century.

                    I do not advocate mob rule. Consider the following:

                    . I strongly belive in respecting what the majority says while carefully threading around minority rights. After all what can happen to you today will happen to me tomorrow.

                    . As many people have observed, Democracy can not be be imposed from without, but must grow from within. Even a country like the U.S., a country founded on Democracy has committed a series of anti-democratic sins such as slavery, segregation, agressive war and violation of property rights of the native population. Its taken the U.S. over 200 hundred years to deal with some of these issues and it still strugling.

                    . Education is the key, but education based on critical thinking and the cultural/social ideosincracies of the culture.

                    . Democracy biggest strenght and its weakness is that it moves with the winds of public opinion. If the majority of Iraqis want an Islamic Republic, who are we to tell them otherwise? To do so would reduce them to nothing more than a satellite state/colony of the U.S.

                    . Let us not confuse "liberties" with freedom. Civil liberties are the expression of a people freedom. If these liberties can be taken away with a snap of the fingers (as it happens everytime the Iraqi Colonial goverment declares martial law or U.S. lay seige to another town) how free are the Iraqis then?

                    The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

                    by Ralfast on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 09:02:37 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  But now the war was the fault of liberals (none)
                    Savage is claiming that the war was the fault of liberals who wanted to nation-build. Guess he wasn't paying attention to all of us liberals who didn't want the war to begin with. He's only speaking up now because he can't stand that the same Iraqis he likely heralded with their purple fingers have voted for Islamic law. The purple finger people have betrayed his sense of what an Iraqi democracy should be. And it's the fault of liberals.
                    •  Sort of my point...in a round about way. (none)
                      The purple finger people have betrayed his sense of what an Iraqi democracy should be.

                      As Juan Cole warned so many months ago, if democracy becomes the stalking horse for Western Imperialism, it will not succeed. Men like Savage spout words like democracy and freedom but merely mean "our style of democracy" and only those "freedoms" that we allow and feel confortable with.

                      Or as Rosevelt put it:[paraphrasing]

                      "Their are a bunch of bastards, but they are kind of bastards."

                      The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

                      by Ralfast on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:09:15 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                    •  what i got (none)
                      was Savage accusing Bushco of "Liberal-like" nation building...
                  •  Well... (none)
                    ...I think you're pretty well wrong on that and history damn well proves it.  Man is a social animal and as a social animal, albeit an evolved one, we tend to gravitate towards an alpha leader or group of alpha leaders.  Even the ancient Greeks and Romans put their Democracy on hold in times of war.  That's why we have a president - a representative body cannot act fast enough to lead when decisive, quick action is needed.  It failed for France, in comes Napoleon.  It failed for the Soviety Union and the soviets were replaced by Lenin and then the more powerful Stalin.  It failed for Germany and in came Hitler.  Italy and Spain eradicated monarchies only to end up with Mussolini and Franco.  And finally our own nation has gone from being, in the beginning, a loose federalist state to a centralized representative democracy dominated by two ruling parties, a handful of families and powerful individuals, and limited to those from the wealthiest caste.  In short, we're damn near an oligarcy in which truly big issues are never really discussed.  Is this a democracy of the type invisioned by the founders?  Not hardly.  In fact, John Locke would be quite pleased.

                    Here's the deal - humanity's natural state is tyranny.  Beta individuals are prone to defer to alpha individuals.  Corporations - which employee most people in this country - are not democracies.  The people who work for the company do not govern it, though their labor produces its wealth.  It's either an oligarchy or a dictatorship.  Those who work for the company defer their personal ideas to the leader.  That's what our democracy is about - deference.  Bush wins, we defer to him.  The Big Man on Campus and the gang of Kool Kids get all the Bennies.  

                    Democracy is not easy - it is by no means the default setting for human society.  In fact, it's a late arrival, scarcely 250 years old.  For 3 million years bullies, chieftans, kings, and autocrats controlled the destiny of average people - kinda like life among all the other great apes, except they fling shit at each other and we launch bombs.

                    Democracy requires work - damn hard work.  Even in America we've let it slip through our fingers.  The Republicans would like us to believe you can stick people together and they'll start voting, in reality they start fighting.  And they'll start doing what comes natural, like sticking women in burkas and kicking the shit out of their half-blood neighbors.  Cultural relativism is real.  Sorry, it's true.  There are no absolutes - for people who still live in the fantasy land of gods and monsters that might seem comfortable, but reality has no time for such fairy tales.  

                    I've been to the middle east about a dozen times.  Each time I've done something totally unconscious that's nearly gotten my ass kicked.  Sorry, but if you think our Made in the USA Nike Brand Freedom is going to stick in Iraq, lets meet for coffee in ten years and see what shakes out.  I'll even buy.  

                    No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices. - Edward R. Murrow

                    by CrazyHorse on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 08:51:15 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

              •  How dare you... (none)
                ...don't you know that Bush is the President and deserves our loyalty, Bush IS the country, Bush IS the USA!  Don't you know that Bush keeps us safe from the terrorists, single handedly.  When I see him chop wood on his ranch, I know he is a man of integrity and character unmatched in the annals of American History.  Bush is the best, better than liberals like Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and others [/snark].

                Pride goeth before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall. Proverbs 16:8

                by PJ 7 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:51:26 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  ya... (none)
                  and the Go'a'uld ARE really gods instead of slimy, aquatic snakeheaded parasites.

                  (sarcasm alert)

                  IMHO: code for the meager thoughts of someone with the social grace of duckweed. --T. Pratchett

                  by Cynical Copper on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:16:34 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  You get Mojo (none)
                    for the sci-fi reference....

                    "Mejor el Diablo que conoces que el que vas a conocer."

                    The direct use of force is such a poor solution to any problem, it is generally employed only by small children and large nations. ~David Friedman

                    by Ralfast on Thu Jul 28, 2005 at 01:43:41 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  fuckheads like this got them there in the (4.00)
          first place.
        •  I'm with you Flo n/t (none)

          Hermaphrodite with attitude!

          by Willadene on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:19:44 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  savage is not sincere (none)
        it's an act.

        however, he's still reprehensible to the 1000'th degree.

        so I do agree... no friend of mine, but I'd love to see him turn on the Republicans.

      •  I'm not glad he's taken this stance. (4.00)
        I don't give a damn what his stance is. Even if he agrees with me, I'd rather he keep his mouth shut and scurry off to his place in hell.

        If Orrin Hatch or Rick Santorum or Bill O'Rielly or even Ann Coulter, were to come out against the war, I could deal with it. But I don't want Savage's support. It couldn't possibly do anything but harm.

        The Media Is Dead. Long Live NewsCorpse.com

        by KingOneEye on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:19:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Truer words... (none)
        have never, ever been spoken!

        Thank you.

      •  All the wrong reasons? (none)
        Oy!  Who the hell are you to determine the "right reasons" for opposing a war.  I, frankly, don't care what his reasons are - isolationist, racist, bigoted, humanitarian, pragmatic, patriotic, right-to-life, religious, blah, blah, blah.

        This war is wrong on so many fronts that it makes me ill that many in my country still support it.  Even if they're fat little chickshits hiding behind computer monitors in their mommy's basement; or koolaid drinking neo-facists.

        "I think every good Christian ought to kick Falwell right in the ass." -- Barry Goldwater

        by DraconisRex on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 06:13:46 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I disagree (4.00)
          ...because I wouldn't want someone else's reasons for opposing the war to be mistaken for mine.

          To the neo-cons, any opposition to the war is treasonous and un-American. To them, it doesn't matter why someone opposes the war. If we agree that reasons for opposing the war don't matter, their reasoning become our reasoning to neo-cons and dittoheads everywhere. Then, we end up having to simultaneously argue against the war and isolationism. If you can successfully pull that off, have at it. I, for one, would rather stay on the message that pulling out of Afghanistan early to invade Iraq on false pretenses was an extremely bad idea.

          •  Agree (none)
            since there are good and bad reasons for supporting a war, and for not supporting a war.

            I don't agree with old style conservatives who think that we should leave the Middle East alone ("because who gives a fuck bout those brownies") - quite contrary it's our duty to promote democracy and liberalism all over the world, by peaceful means of course. These are the only political systems that can handle often selfish and brutish human beings.

            Hillary. Wrong on the issues. Wrong elitist image. Wrong for Democrats. Brian Schweitzer 2008

            by Joe B on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:26:46 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Then... (none)
            Michael "Savage" is a traitor to the neo-cons .. interesting

            Hermaphrodite with attitude!

            by Willadene on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:27:24 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  of course (none)
              We've already seen that they'll throw a dissenter's family under the bus if it'll help them avoid any appearance of impropriety.

              Paul O'Neill and Richard Clarke are by no means known for being liberals. They simply publically disagreed with the administration and almost immediately found their shit piled on the driveway.

          •  jeesh (none)
            Trust me, no one is going to confuse you with Michael Savage.

            Pride goeth before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall. Proverbs 16:8

            by PJ 7 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:57:53 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Read the linked article... (none)
        there is nothing there but a wing-nut trying to co-opt the growing anti-war movement!:

        "the Iraq war represents a failed liberal exercise in nation-building."

        Come on now.  This asshole is trying to distinguish himself from some of his more "liberal" competitors like Rush and Hannity in an absurd attempt to paint the war as a liberal exercise.  Real conservatives would have never supported "the biggest blunder in American military history".

        Next he'll being blaming Bill Clinton for the war.

    •  God forbid! (3.50)
      Democratsin08: Hopefully we'll see more and more following him.
      When progressives align themselves with the reactionary far-right after finding common cause on Iraq, they are digging a grave for their hopes of an equal and enlightened society.

      From opposition to the atrocious invasion of Iraq to a common ground on issues of globalization and trade such as the WTO, progressives have found the far-right are often on the same page. But there's one major difference, that of motivation and desired end result.

      We must never loose sight that people such as Michael Savage and Pat Buchanan are both nationalists and fascists, a deadly mix that is being increasingly evangelized. That they and their supporters may ardently oppose Bush and even agree with the average Kos reader on several important issues does not change that fact, or lessen the grave danger posed to civilized society by their reactionary ideology.

      There is an opinion that the end goal of the GOP agenda as implemented during the Reagan and subsequent Bush administrations is the bankruptcy and utter destruction of the federal government as we know it. I don't believe this can be proven definitely either way (unless people are willing to accept the change in the national debt from 1980 to now as proof - and most aren't), but there is a large body of evidence to support it - from the realities of supply side economics, to the statements of influential policy makers such as Grover "drown [the federal government] in a bathtub" Norquist.

      We are heading towards a financial meltdown that will tear apart American life and society in ways that cannot be imagined. By that time, it is likely that a vast majority of society will be virulently opposed to the Bush administration and the "neocons" - as they should be. But they won't see the cause of their troubles as a vast far right fascist movement that came into power with the election of Reagan. Nor will the sainted Reagan be blamed for the great reversal in the nations accounts his budgets set in motion.

      What would come next? It's not hard to imagine what the militant nationalists would like, nor can it be ignored that there is a large network of armed militias, steeped in reactionary ideology and bizarre, often racist, anti-government conspiracy theories, waiting for action. There are numerous links between the leaders of the far-right, the organizers of the armed radical foot soldiers, and the very republican administrations that are leading is down a path of national destruction.

      As people such as Savage increase their following, as progressives drop their guard, thinking that anything that is anti-Bush, anti-neocon, or anti-Israel is good or worth supporting, the days until a uniquely horrendous American Nazism takes hold draws nearer.

      •  The liberal hawks found common (none)
        cause with Savage back when he supported the war.  Remember Hitler liked to invade countries for Bogus reason.
      •  Politics makes strange bedfellows (none)
        There's a difference between supporting someone and accepting an ally.  One way to build a movement is to reach across ideological barriers to join forces with those whom you might be opposing in other fights.   Obviously, you have to walk very carefully when you side with monsters, but there are ways to do it.  The trouble with partisanship (and I am aware that Markos calls this a "partisan blog") is that it can have the effect of making you eschew people who can help you on an issue because they're not on your team, and embrace people with stupid ideas because they are.

        All that aside, Savage is a reprehensible hate-monger who poisons discourse (he's one of the few Conservatives horrible enough to make Bernard Goldberg's enemies list).  No, we don't want his company, we don't want to stand beside him. But we do want him to keep reminding his "Savage bots" that there are better definitions of "conservative" than the disastrous policies set forth by the Neoconservatives.  If it takes a jerk like Savage to wake people up, at least they woke up.

      •  Agree with 99% of what you wrote (none)
        except the anti-Israel stuff. Savage is very pro-Israel.

        As an aside, there are letters written by Savage in the 70's to Allen Ginsberg in which discusses his lust for young boys. They are in the Ginsberg archive at Stanford U.

        Savage was on the left before he went fascist. Sometimes I think that his show is so over the top that it's just a bit of political theater in the situationist or Surrealist style.

        "If cows and horses had hands, they would depict their gods as cows and horses." Xenophanes

        by upstate NY on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 06:03:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  political theater radio (none)
          Wouldn't be unheard of. Boortz would have you believe that that's his Modus Operandi.

          OTOH, all too often right-wing talkers apply the "entertainer" label to themselves when the heat around them gets too hot.

          "You don't need to come down on little ol Sean Hannity"  -Sean Hannity, tail tucked between his legs

        •  Those on the extreme right and left (none)
          are very similar and many make the move back and forth. Both believe in the infallibility of their ideas and have no quams demonizing all who oppose them and using state power to enforce their view of society on everyone.
      •  Confused post (none)
        This is a very confused post.

        The militias are no longer an important factor on the national scene, if ever they were. Bush's hard-core support is in the sizable Christian Right, which is anything but "anti-Israel" or "anti-neocon".  Michael Savage is anything but "anti-Israel" or "anti-neocon" (see his website for evidence.

        Finally, equating Pat Buchanan with Savage is unfair to Buchanan.  They differ on important issues, and Savage's style is far more extreme.  Say what you will about Buchanan - and I disagree with him on many issues - he is not a "horrendous Nazi".  

  •  Hmm... (4.00)
    I would like someone to find a clip of him calling all opposition to the War traitors because I'm sure he said it, and rub it in his bloviated hypocritical face.

    Dr. Dean...Paging Dr. Dean...he's not on-call you say...then get me DR. MATT!! STAT!!!

    by doctormatt06 on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:41:38 PM PDT

    •  How about this one? (4.00)
      One of many, I'm sure, but here's AlterNet's March 19, 2003, observation:

      The Web site of Michael Savage, host of a popular daily talk-radio show and a weekly television program on MSNBC, features a banner headline: "The Sedition Act -- Time to Act. Time to Arrest the Leaders of the Anti-War Movement, Once we Go To War? We Must Protect Our Troops! Sponsor The Paul Revere Society!"

      So, ummmm, Mikey's going to turn himself in to the authorities or is he holding out for the better photo op of US Marshals kicking down his door and leading him away in shackles?

      "Injustice wears ever the same harsh face wherever it shows itself." - Ralph Ellison

      by KateCrashes on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:01:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He's been saying that since the election (4.00)
    and yet he voted for the guy, and still considers us (ie liberals) to be insane and a threat to America.

    He calls Rush "Hush Bimbo" and his main reason for being against the war seemed to be a "who gives a shit about building schools for them. What about Americans!" So it's somewhat xenophobic.

    Savage is still a freak show, regardless.

    "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

    by Kerrycrat on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:41:41 PM PDT

  •  Not a savage fan (3.50)
    but it's interesting to see this point of view developing on the Right.  This war is increasingly more difficult to rationalize from any perspective.
    •  Learn from Goldwater, you wingnuts (none)
      It's a short distance from GW's "Wanted Dead or Alive" to Cal Thomas's recent "Kill them all."  

      The Far Right should have learned that foreign gunslinging wasn't popular, domestically, in the Cold War days, and if they allow themselves to get pulled "off message" from protecting the 'virginity-of-their-daughters-until-they're-ensconsed-in-a-Jesus-sanctified-hetero-marriage,' and get dragged into a debate over the wisdom of killing as many Arabs as we can, as fast as we can, well, they're going to lose.

      Apparently, Savage learned his lesson in 1964.

      Hopefully, Rove's Regiment hasn't learned.

  •  A misleading post, IMHO (4.00)
    Savage does not want to end aggression against Muslim countries. He wants to avoid the loss of American life by leaving Iraq to gun itself down whilst America carries out what he describes as "random acts of terror" themselves by taking out ports, industrial facilities and key points of all Muslim countries until they come to heel.

    Then, after each incident, deny any involvement and send them flowers and commiserations. Nice.

    I would not bother to post a Michael Savage opinion on anything on DKos.

    New International Times, the place where Kossacks and the world meet.

    by Welshman on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:49:23 PM PDT

    •  ditto (4.00)
      Savage is saying Bush is wrong because he hasn't turned the Middle East into a glass parking lot.
    •  The "Savage" Views (none)
      Welshman, I'll bother to post the following about Michael Savage:

      I tune into Michael Savage (as well as Air America) from time to time, and I did hear him interview Victor David Hanson a couple of days ago,  in the show you're referring to. And, yup, that's what Savage advocated: reciprocal terrorist acts, except we should use cruise missiles.

      Savage's philosophy is that this country is heading to hell in a handbasket, except the Democrats are driving the EXPRESS train to hell, and the Republicans are on the local.

      He did support Bush before the election, not because he thought Bush was terrific, but because he hated Kerry even more. The day after Bush won, Savage went back into relieved Bush Bashing mode. I also predict that he will support anyone who runs against Hillary, if she is the Dem choice in 2008.

      Before the war in Iraq, he supported our involvement with this caveat: get in there, do it, do it right, and get out. And .. do not "break the American people's hearts with casualty reports." His stance was that the way to win was to "demonize the enemy".

      Savage was absolutely disgusted that we did not  flatten Fallujah when insurgents hung those four charred bodies of American contractors from the bridge (a photo which he still has posted on his website)... and the Fallujans danced around them. When we did go into Fallujah, he was disgusted that it was not thorough enough.

      He calls Abu Gharib "Grab an Arab" prison.

      Basically ... he wants the US to pull out since in his opinion, we're tying the military's hands with political correctness, and in his opinion, that's no way to win a war.

      His opinion of Bush is not terrific. Savage is an ultra conservative libertarian, and frankly see's no difference between the Democrat and Republican party. He calls them Republicrats.

      Now, regarding the opinion of the American public: there was a poll awhile back that show most people did not agree with Bush's handling of the war. I wonder what the percentage would be if the question asked was something along the lines of "I disagree with Bush's handling of the war because he should have nuked Fallujah ..?"

      Anyway, there ya have it.

      •  What did Hanson say? (none)
        I've had a twisted interest in his career ever since meeting him at the Gail A. Burnett lecture at SDSU.  Apparently he dreams of becoming the next Livy - the court historian of a newly formed empire.

        Invisible airwaves crackle with life, bright antennae bristle with the energy

        by Ernest Tomlinson on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 10:54:20 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I largely agree... (none)
      ... but the guy is on the radio for a reason.  Like it or not, people listen to the guy's show, most probably because many of them agree with him.  

      As such, his opinions, though usually knee-jerk and nonsensical, are shared by a sizeable slice of folks out there.  We can't ignore them lest they turn out en masse and burn us again, especially like they did in 2004.

      Putting Savage's opinions out there is an easy way for Kos to stir up conversation, especially when Kos leaves it as open-ended as he did with his post today.

      "I intend to live forever. So far, so good." Steven Wright

      by gsbadj on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:42:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Thank God (none)
    some on the Right are sick and tired of these neocon losers, just as we progressives are tired of them.

    Bush, Cheney, and Rove are incompetent, and they have no workable plans on any issue for Americans.  Throw the rascals out.

    O'Reilly:"If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing...I will not trust the Bush administration again."

    by sunbro on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:50:40 PM PDT

  •  I think Savage (none)
    I think Savage may be a performance art thing...

    I mean, he starts out a natural herb guy in the Bay Area and ends us as rabid as can be... and he admits his whole style is just stream of consciousness ranting...  it could be.

    He's just very dedicated to the joke, like Andy Kaufman.

    •  Don't forget his Coffee Enemas to kick Cocaine (4.00)

      March 5, 2003  |  At first glance, Michael Alan Weiner seems like an improbable candidate to be America's angriest, most vicious conservative radio host. Born 60 years ago in the Bronx, Weiner has lived in Northern California for most of his adult life, making a living as an herbalist and nutritionist. He communed with Fijian traditional healers, got married in a rain forest and studied ethno-medicine at the University of California at Berkeley. He swam naked with Allen Ginsberg, dreamed of being the next Lenny Bruce and wrote a rambling novel about a half-mad alter ego. His son's middle name is Goldencloud. For years, he made a name cranking out a pile of books on alternative medicine, recommending bizarre remedies such as using vitamin C to stop AIDS and kicking cocaine with coffee enemas.

      http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/05/savage/index_np.html


    •  Yea maybe (none)
      He might be willing to say whatever comes to mind... sharing thoughts that many of us often have but would not dare say out loud.  I believe Howard Stern decided on that approach at the beginning of his career as well.

      If everyone would start saying what they really think, even on the blogosphere-- it would be shocking and might even precipitate WORLDWIDE SUICIDES!! hahah just kidding on that last part.

      I voted for John Kerry and all I got was this lousy sticker...

      by diplomatic on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:05:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yup (none)
      True on both counts, pyrrho.
  •  I listen to Savage frequently.... (4.00)
    I'm not a fan exactly but I do enjoy his insanity.

    You have to be careful with him. He's unpredictable and listening to him describe anything political is like listening to Charles Manson describe a Rorschach blot.

    He will change his mind on things without warning. You just can't count on the guy.

    One thing he is good at is movie reviews. He did a review of the movie "Master and Commander" on his show after the movie came out and I was laughing so hard I almost peed my pants.

    Watch your back with the Savage Weiner. As I said, he's unpredictable.

    *No matter where you go...there you are!*--Buckaroo Banzai

    by Manix on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:55:32 PM PDT

  •  Dumbsfeld just made as Surprise visit to Iraq... (none)

    CNN is currently reporting that Dumbsfeld has made a surprise visit to Iraq.  Shit must be happening.  Did anyone see the CBS News report on how no one knows how big the insurgency is, and that it could be higher then 50,000.

  • Video Clip: Insurgency With Resiliency


  •  Savage always brings fireworks (none)
    Granted, he's either very out there or working a gimmick to appeal to far-right wingers (such asd titling a book "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder")

    Savage and WorldNutDaily are both in the field of "Bush isn't conservative enough"

    Here's something for your amusement, a WND.com poll

    Whom do you want to win the GOP presidential nomination in 2008?

    Mel Gibson - 45.39% (5500 votes)

    Other - 22.14% (2682 votes)

    Tom Tancredo - 12.14% (1471 votes)

    Condi Rice - 6.52% (790 votes)

    Judge Roy Moore - 3.86% (468 votes)

    Ron Paul - 3.84% (465 votes)

    Rudy Giuliani - 2.95% (358 votes)

    Bill Frist - 1.29% (156 votes)

    Mitt Romney - 1.16% (141 votes)

    John McCain - 0.70% (85 votes)

    (note: something jumps out about these polls as peculiar. The one on Osama had 48% or so thinking he was secretly in U.S. custody. 30% or so were defending the PA Lt. Governor. And they're getting 10,000 votes a poll, which could mean some guy is seriously rigging these polls since all it takes is an e-mail to get a vote)

    "Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right" - Carl Schurz

    by RBH on Tue Jul 26, 2005 at 11:59:59 PM PDT

  •  Its about time that the (none)
    people who were/are responsible for leading our whole country over a cliff are finally coming out and eating their own. Bastards every one of em. Bush bots indeed.

    Don't look now! I'm just a friendly reminder.

    by babbitt on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:01:13 AM PDT

  •  Hillary & Hagel (none)
    They'll both be comimg 'round the mountain, any minute now.  Saying how the both supported the war, but don't anymore.

    Gotta love bipartisanship.      

  •  I gotta admit he's got clever catchphrases (none)
    "Bush-bots" "Hush Bimbo" "Sean Vanity".  

    You know, I always wondered whether he actually believed what he spouted, but now I think he might.  If he didn't, he'd never risk leaving Bush's side.  

    •  Clever catchphrases (none)
      I agree, and we should be using the same names when we refer to those bozos. Consider the potential for them to become viral, and the built-in excuse that we have for using them: others on the Right are using the same names.
  •  Oh my. (none)
    "Hush Bimbo" and "Sean Vanity" are the names Savage has pinned on Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity of WABC.

    snip

    "There is no college in Rush. There is no college in Hannity," said Savage. "He's a high school dropout. It's like listening to an uneducated, unthinking man on the radio."

    snip

    As for the rest of the radio talkers, "They may as well work for the Republican Party. There's nothing interesting if you can predict what a man's going to say by just going to the GOP Web site."

    He's certainly got that right. Listening to an endless rehash of Karl Rove's talking points, leavened by a few Teddy Kennedy- is-a-drunk jokes, is not very entertaining.

    snip

    When you attack the Bush- Rove spin from the right, however, you realize that the neocons' grand social experiment has been tried most visibly in Iraq and has failed most visibly there. People are starting to notice. Eventually even the Bushbots may get a clue.

    •  Funny.... (none)
      not that long back I remember him kissing Rush's ass and refering to him as "the big guy" and saying that Rush is "the king".

      Savage is a vicious back stabber. I'm just glad he's stabbing the right backs now.

      *No matter where you go...there you are!*--Buckaroo Banzai

      by Manix on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:08:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  He didn't even get it right- (none)
      with this part: "It's like listening to an uneducated, unthinking man on the radio."

      It's not LIKE listening to an uneducated man if you've just established that they ARE uneducated. It IS listening to an uneducated man...

      He can't even keep his own internal logic straight.

      •  not reality-based (none)
        Here is my email to the columnist:

        Mr. Mulshine,

        In your column, "The Savage Nation vs. the Bushbots" from Thursday, July 21, 2005 you state that:

        "Al Franken and the other liberals are probably still wondering why they had such little luck in their efforts to start a talk-radio network to bash George Bush from the left."

        Air America Radio launched on March 31, 2004 with five stations. Little more than a year later they now have 67 stations. Your statement implies that the liberal radio network has failed when in fact it is growing rapidly.

        You also repeat without correction the following Savage statement:

        "There is no college in Rush. There is no college in Hannity," said Savage. "He's a high school dropout. It's like listening to an uneducated, unthinking man on the radio."

        Limbaugh and Hannity both attended college, although neither graduated.

        Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but not to their own facts. As someone who actually believes that truth matters, I expect responsible journalists to acknowledge factual errors and publish corrections. If you choose not to do so, I would appreciate an explanation for your decision.

        Sincerely,

  •  Dr. Evil: (none)
    "Farbissina, order in the Bush Bots."

    Farbissina:

    "Bring in the BUSH BOTTTSSSSS!!!!"

    O'Reilly:"If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing...I will not trust the Bush administration again."

    by sunbro on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:19:10 AM PDT

    •  You do realize (4.00)
      That sounds like something a person might be able to buy at the Hustler store?

      Pretty bad! Bush bots. Whoa! Uhh uhh cool, beavis... you said bush bots... huh huh yea! fire fire!

      *This moment of unbridled adolescent humor brought to you by diplomatic.

      I voted for John Kerry and all I got was this lousy sticker...

      by diplomatic on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:26:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is easily explained. (4.00)
    Savage has never believed the crap he spouts off with. It's an act, and it pays him well because it's so easy to make the true believers think he's one of them.

    But now he's watching Rove get tied in knots, as the approval ratings plummet, and the media grows its balls back, and he's clearly thinking that the Neocons are in big trouble.

    Now, he can keep pushing them on the public, like Hannity, O'Reilly and Limbaugh, but when the Bush government topples, then what?

    When the truth about Bush emerges, Hannity's career will be over. When it's all clear how they've been playing us, O'Reilly will be toast. And Limbaugh, he won't make it through his own drug trial.

    So Savage is watching all this and thinking, "How do I preserve my gig when the fit hits the shan?"

    Easy. He calls Bush not right wing enough, so when the government falls he can say "I always knew he was no good!"

    You watch - Hannity next.

    •  i agree (none)
      this rove scandal is so nasty that the back-stabbing, opportunits in the right wing just want to save their asses.

      These rotten republican jerks make me sick!

      Remember the story of how the Arizona GOP couldnt find a candidate to run for governor because the pay was so low?

      Remeber how republicans always shit on the military service of brave Democrats when it comes to their campaigns?

      Savage is another greedy, selfish, rotten bastard that could give a rat's ass about the troops. They just want to win at all costs. They put money over thier party, party over country, and country over humanity.  

      Chico Town -- http://www.chicotown.com

      by chicoTowner on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:36:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  there's always been (none)
    conservative dissent. It was repressed after the war started, but it's surfacing again.

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

    by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:25:52 AM PDT

    •  Many probably felt that way (none)
      for a long time... but only now that Bush has already been re-elected do they feel it's "safe" to come out and speak their mind.

      When it's all said and done I believe that the Bush presidency will not be held in high regard among Republicans.  They will look back to the moments after 9/11 and think in the same vein we did -- he had the whole world united behind us... he could have PASSED ANYTHING THROUGH congress, could have APPOINTED ANYONE HE WANTED, could have created millions of new Republicans.

      But he didn't.  He chose to please a minority element (neo cons) and has made it very clear he only cares about his friends.  He's loyal to his friends!

      Well someone please tell him that being president is not about looking out for your "friends" above and beyond the rest of the American people.  What an idiot.

      I voted for John Kerry and all I got was this lousy sticker...

      by diplomatic on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:31:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  antiwar.com (none)
      The single best antiwar info site on the net, antiwar.com, is run by antiwar conservatives.
      •  careful with that site (none)
        take the articles case byt  case and author by author. We had a big contretemps here about the site, and it was notable that the conservative John Cole dropped by with a comment saying the same thing I just did.

        Some (Raimundo, e.g.) are unreconstructed Buchananites and are obsessed with AIPAC to the point of conspiracy theory. Others have their own slant. It's worth reading, as long as you remember the enemy of my enemy is not always my friend.

        Toss an immigration rock in that pool and watch the ripples.

        "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho Marx

        by Greg Dworkin on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:35:56 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I'm really starting to admire some very... (none)
    ...conservative Republicans like Walter Jones and Butch Otter. They are right on the war, right on the patriot act, and right on CAFTA.

    It's sad that we have to rely on conservative Republicans to do what the DLC corporatists won't.

    •  and 180 degrees wrong (none)
      on just about everything else.
      Sorry but 'admire' and 'conservative republicans' do not belong in the same sentence let alone on a Democrat/progressive/liberal blog.

      'Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it'. - GBS

      by stevej on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:29:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  He lies about Al Fraken in the article (none)
    and tries to say AAR is a failure.  What an ass.

    I sent him this, in defense of Mr. Franken:

    Subject: Thank you for your article!

    and lying about Al Franken.  I hope it keeps you warm at night.  Mr.
    Franken has never said he would have invaded Iraq for any reason.  The
    only people who wanted to invade Iraq were you and your conservative
    buddies, all giddy to prove yourself men--not willing to send your own
    blood, of course, but that of the poor you exploit.

    Though you are but a drop in the mouth-piece of the GOP, I don't think Mr.
    Franken should bother himself with a liable suit for the shameless,
    made-up claims you print today.

    What is sad is how you still blame others for sending our troops to die.
    No sir, they went to Iraq because of people like you, and your "rah-rah"
    for the war, becuase it wasn't your blood that was going to spill.

    Just hoping there is a God, so he can judge your soul accordingly.  Thanks
    for spreading lies!

    here's to late night drunk blogging!

    Get up on your SoapBlox - The NEW blog framework

    by pacified on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:30:03 AM PDT

    •  Indeed (none)
      I thought it was a little early to pronounce AAR a failure... Last I checked they were still opening new stations and gaining market share. This must be some new definition of "failure" I haven't heard yet.
  •  I don't know how much of this stance impresses (none)
    me.  So he's the first rat to jump of the sinking ship.  Big deal. It's one thing to change your mind in hindsight, it's another to also concede the people you've been bad-mouthing all along were right.
  •  Off topic , but (none)
    ties in with the "I'm disgusted with the media" general theme:

    Has anyone caught the new CNN promo that supposedly tries to show how they can scoop all other sources, even...the Dept. of Homeland Security?

    It's a clip of Senator Milkulski addressing congress (presumably about the failures of the terror alert system) in which she says that many first responders have told her that they find out about warnings from CNN.

    •  Definitely the most (none)
      offensive promo. Shows exactly the priorities of a so called news channel though.

      'Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it'. - GBS

      by stevej on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:31:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Buchananite Paleocon Branch (none)
    has been consistently against the war, staying true to their isolationist, "America First, Get the Fuck Off My Property" roots. Check out the archives of American Conservative.

    Leave it to neoconned Bushco to make a paleo-wingnut like Buchanan seem downright reasonable!

    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral." -Paulo Freire

    by wobblie on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:40:36 AM PDT

    •  I don't know about (none)
      the other parts of Buchanan's philosophies, but isolationism feels better as a foreign policy stance, in comparison with invading a sovereign nation, as we did in Iraq, especially when it is done as a unilateral military action.

      Preventative action is one thing (e.g. JFK's blockade of Cuba during the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis), but going into Iraq with scant and flaky evidence, at best, of WMD's is quite another, and was an amazingly stupid foreign policy move.

      Another point regarding Iraq and the Middle East:

      For national security, a smarter energy strategy is an absolute necessity now...including energy conservation, development of massive amounts of varied types of energy sources at home...

      ...eventually, we need to get energy independent...no more blood for oil!!!!!!!!!!!!

      O'Reilly:"If the Americans go in and overthrow Saddam Hussein and it's clean, he has nothing...I will not trust the Bush administration again."

      by sunbro on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:02:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  well... (none)
        ..eventually, we need to get energy independent...no more blood for oil!!!!!!!!!!!!

        I don't think we've got until "eventually"... remember, we've got bad foriegn oil-related policy, "peak oil", and global warming in progress. IMHO, we need to be in full-scale transition to whatever comes next after oil (and it had better be "green") within the next 10 years. You won't like the alternative.

        Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

        by alizard on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:14:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Buchanan has a great quote on Terrorism (none)
      that the MSM or mainstream Dems don't have the guts to say. "Terrorism is the price of Empire". Whatever his flaws, and there are many, Buchanan does get to the heart of the issue without mincing words and talking about how they hate our "freedom".
  •  RSS (none)
    Whoa... Daily Kos putting ads in the RSS feeds now? For shame.

    I guess something has to pay the bills though.

  •  I take little comfort (4.00)
    from a ranting talk radio floater who opposes Bush for not being jackboot and extreme enough for a 'real conservative' getting shit started with the Hannity-Coulter crowd.

    Basically, Michael 'Get AIDS and die sodomite!' (And yes, that is the level of this guy's hateful discourse) Savage is calling Bush a 'big government liberal', and the buckethead writing the article thinks its a hoot, because he likes it.

    From my own experience, lunatics moved the middle with insanity accepted as common sense with repetition. I used to be a moderate Democratic party voter, now I am a 'extreme leftwing radical who blames America first and hates my country' because I don't vote GOP.

    I get it, he's making trouble for Bush and his brain dead drones. Bush can't run for office again, but somebody much, much worse can.

    Terrorism is the war of the poor, and war is the terrorism of the rich. - Sir Peter Ustinov

    by LeftHandedMan on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 12:48:30 AM PDT

  •  Savage? (4.00)
    ahem

    "Weiner."

    /that is all

    ------------------------------
    Trying To Maintain Rationality
    econatheist's bloggity blog blog

    by EconAtheist on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 01:07:20 AM PDT

  •  Savage is a dangerous maniac (4.00)
    Don't honor him in any way. He blames liberals for EVERYTHING. People listen to him and it's frightening. The other day he was screaming for internment camps for both muslims and liberals. I've heard him say that liberals should be executed. He's constantly screaming for nuking Mecca, Medina, you name it. This man is DANGEROUS. Don't give him any credit. I don't think he's even slightly funny. He's a symbol of the angry insanity that has a firm grip on the red states. Stupid people think he's great. And there are plenty of stupid people in this ocuntry. Especially in the red states. Fascists like to use particular groups of people as scapegoats. The nazis used jews. Savage uses liberals. He would love to see every single last one of us die.

    LUH 3417 is the name of a character in George Lucas' first film, "THX 1138."

    by LUH 3417 on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 02:20:32 AM PDT

  •  Kos Reads The Star-Ledger? (none)
    This is a surprise to those of us in Jerseyland.  Hell, the Star-Ledger ought to pick up this note -- they could use the national cache.
  •  Oops -- "Cachet" (none)
    Not "cache" -- been listening to too many of those guys in Iraq call stored arms "cash-ehs" instead of "cash-es".
  •  I cannot make any sense out of this statement... (none)
    "...the Iraq war represents a failed liberal exercise in nation-building."

    Is he trying to blame liberals for the Iraq war?  Bizarre.

  •  Who cares? (none)
    Savage (aka Weiner) is scum of the earth.

    cheers,

    Mitch Gore

    Nobody will change America for you, you have to work to make it happen

    by Lestatdelc on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 03:48:21 AM PDT

  •  All this, and ... (none)
    I've never followed the guy at all. But the article does have him making one strong point: Saying "war on terror" is cowardly, because Bush doesn't name the real enemy: Islamofascism.

    There's a real opportunity for the Democrats to pull ahead by doing exactly that. Name the enemy clearly! Maybe with that word, maybe with a synonym. And always remember to credit Saudi Arabia as the major sponsor and exporter of it. (Dean was clear on that during the campaign -- the Saudi part.)

  •  Don't count your chickens. (4.00)
    As an infrequent listener (I have LONG commute) of Savage I can tell you that his main gripe with Dubya is that he hasn't been brutal enough on what he calls the 'Islamofascists' so I wouldn't consider him being even remotely in the anti-Iraq camp. The whack thing about Savage is he spends half the time lambasting the 'Islamofascists' and the other half pining for the glory days of ancient Rome. In other words he is himself a proto-fascist. With friends like that who needs enemas......
  •  So, I'm guesssing.. (none)
    his monthly paycheck was late? Once the BushCo payola machine makes things good he will be go back to singing the proper tune.
  •  Savage is a brutish nationalist (none)
    who is a bully in the mold of the worst fascist thinking on earth today...he is a racist..a hate monger and an evil force...he advocates harsh measures in Iraq and he is truly not worthy of comment...
  •  Air America? (none)
    What's this about AA having "little luck?"

    Anything's possible with Commander Cuckoo Bananas in charge. -Homer J. Simpson

    by Cheez Whiz on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:31:34 AM PDT

  •  Nice development but Savage is still a jerk (none)
    This won't make up for his other glaring warts.  Still, it's good to see the right wingers starting to go at each other's throats on another front.

    Reality is just... a point of view - Philip K. Dick; Beautiful thing, the destruction of words. (from Orwell's 1984)

    by LionelEHutz on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 05:33:50 AM PDT

  •  What? Any Of Them Have Brains Left? (none)
    I thought BushCo would have pounded them all out by now. Maybe next time they won't be quite such a cheap date and easy scr....
  •  Trotskyites (none)
    For the past couple years, I've wondered why we on the left haven't adopted the neocons-are-descendents-of-Trotskyists rhetoric.
    •  That wouldn't be useful. (none)
      Nobody remembers who the Trotskyites were, any more. "Uhh... some sort of Communist, right? But a weird splinter group, and Trotsky was shot by Stalin or something." That's about all that's left.

      Folly is fractal: the closer you look at it, the more of it there is. - TNH

      by Canadian Reader on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:53:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  But but but (none)
    doesn't that make him a traitor?
  •  Re: Savage (none)
    Savage is vile and truly offensive, but he doesn't have hidden agendas, unlike Rush and the mainstream conservative talk hosts, so he's actually a breath of fresh air in a sense.   Rush is a character-deficient coward, and Hannity is just a stooge, so they have to twist and distort the facts because they can't come right out and articulate what they really think.  Savage is more of an idealogical purist, and as such isn't hampered by the requirement to forward the Bush agenda.  I can actually listen to him without getting pissed off, unlike the others.
  •  The guy's a nut job (none)
    Hopefully He'll diminish support for the admin, but won't bolster his own, and maybe the WH'll attack him. Be nice to see them attack the right wingers for a change.. A good direction for their energy to be channeled..

    "Families is where are nation finds hope, where wings take dream." - George Bush Jr

    by bobcatster on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 07:36:21 AM PDT

  •  Savage, 'overqualified'? (none)
       The man may be educated, but he's still ignorant.
    •  Overstates his "qualifications"... (none)
      As far as I know, he has no degree in the "difficult" epidemiology as he claims, but rather "nutritional ethnomedicine" as the UCB library describes his 1978 PhD Thesis, entitled "Nutritional ethnomedicine in Fiji."  The closest he gets to epidemiology seems to be "Fijian disease names" in his book, "Secrets of Fijian Medicine."

      I guess "nutritional ethnomedicine" just doesn't have the same pull with his audience as the infinitely more serious-sounding "epidemiology."

      •  And remember ... (none)
        Savage's extreme conservatism is probably linked to:

        a) his own clearly repressed homosexuality,and

        b) the fact that he completely failed to get a college teaching job in the Bay Area with his doctorate, and then figured it was because all those minorities had gotten preferential treatment.

  •  It is an interesting point (none)
    What has made the Bush administration so bad has been their embracing of liberalism.

    A lot of us have pointed this out over the years...  I think Kevin Drum most particularly.

    In order for Bush to win... he has to pretend to be a liberal.

    That pretty much means that liberalism is a vibrant ideology in America, and if the Democratic party would truly embrace it, things would be different.

    Instead we're stuck in this post Vietnam liberal funk, where liberals are afraid to be liberals.

  •  Brief sample (none)
    I tuned into his show accidentally the other day.  I'm amaszed anyone listens to it because of the number of ads.  Anyway, he was ranting incoherently.  He mentioned a dermatologist, a psychologist, and liberals.  I think he was also mad at a neurosurgeon.  He said something really rude like (v. rough paraphrase -- poor memory) , "Just because the guy cuts into your head and takes out the tumor, that doesn't mean you have to respect him or thank him."  The main rant was directed at "an 8-dollar-an-hour secretary" who conveyed a message to him.  Savage seemed to think the doctor was dissing him by not calling him directly.  Perhaps he was in surgery, the last refuge of slackers?

    He seemed really threatened by professionals involved in his health care.  But more than that, he seemed really unbalanced.  Who picks on the secretary?  Who feels superior because they earn more than the secretary?  Sheesh.

  •  Mulshine's Importance - 9/11 and Jersey Repubs. (none)
    I'll let others discuss Savage.  Let me focus for a moment on the Star Ledger columnist who wrote this piece.

    Mulshine has managed to maintain a high-profile gig with the largest paper in New Jersey for many years.  Influential Republicans who commute from Jersey into the City, make big bucks, and contribute heavily to the GOP read him regularly.  And those Republicans, many of whom were deeply affected by 9/11, will see this statement from Mulshine:

    Instead of reducing the reach of Islamic fundamentalism, Bush has managed in Iraq to get 1,700 Americans killed in a war that will create yet another Islamic republic. Just yesterday we learned that the new constitution in Iraq will incorporate sharia, Islamic law.
  •  in the interest of fairness (none)
    Mulshine's been against Bush from the start. He may be a conservative, but at least he's an intelligent one - and he's definitely a libertarian, not a <strike>theocrat</strike>social conservative. He's usually worth reading - certainly more so than the NYT's Brooks-Tierney tag-team.

    -- What is it to exist? To exist is to be a value of a bound variable.

    by teferi on Wed Jul 27, 2005 at 08:30:17 AM PDT

  •  Conservative Heads Will Explode (none)
    The greater point is that the same people who listen to Savage also listen to Rush and Hannity.  Now there's a conflict!  One of the radiofascists has left the ranch and is going against the kneejerk defense of Bush that the rest of the radio right spews 24/7.

    I know somebody who thinks Savage "makes sense", who also by the way thinks Rush "would never lie."

    Remember Hymie the Robot (TV show "Get Smart" for all you youngsters) when his circuits would cross and his head would start to smoke?  I have to go visit this person to see if her head is smoking too.

    Anytime you can break through the monolithic thought patterns and frames on the right, especially when someone on the right is doing it, it's good.  

  •  Always Blame the Libruls! (none)
    New World Order Battle Plan (1980-20??)

    1.  Fantacize for years about a New World Order and other neo-con utopias.  Prepare for ultimate battle by funding and training a "savage tyrant" or two that later we can turn on and take out.

    2.  Get thorough, across-the-board "conservative" buy-in for your programs.

    3.  Get appointed to the Presidency by SC (note to self:  make sure you bash activist judges later so people don't think you appreciated their efforts on your behalf).

    4.  Lie, cheat, and steal your way into committing the armed forces to laying down their lives for short-sighted and unreasonable expectations of victory and "liberation".

    5.  Did that work?

    Yes -> Great.  Proclaim the start of the New Conservative Epoch.  Burn all Libruls at the stake for daring to oppose.

    No -> Great.  That's what you get for doing what the Libruls wanted.  Now, time to do something Conservative, like nuke Canada (hopefully the fallout will reach to France) and erect a burning moat of oil along the Mexico border.  And don't forget to burn all the Libruls at the stake for getting us into Iraq.

    •  Declare Victory and move on (none)
      Its sad to say but my opinion is that this is just planned to build conservative support to exit from Iraq.  The right can be manipulated so easily because Bush is "Christian"....

      Republicans will try to build support for getting out of Iraq before the next round of elections.  You must give the people what they want.  (First you have to guide them to what they want)

      We won't leave with our tails between our legs, no matter how badly things are screwed up....

      We will Declare Victory and move on!!!!!!

  •  Savage (none)
    You libs are soooo dumb. Savage criticizes Bush for being TOO diplomatic to the Islamic fundamentalists. He fully supports the war. This is why you keep losing elections. STUPIDITY>

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